Peter:
[0:00] Hello, everyone, and today I have a super special guest with me, the lovely Jessica Osborne, who is an online business strategist and marketing
Peter:
[0:11] coach helping women take over the world. So many people are like, that's us. It's like it's women power everywhere. But she's also the host of She's the Business Podcast and obviously a co-author and an obsessed travel mum. So, welcome to the pod, Jessica. So nice to have you.
Jessica:
[0:34] Thank you so much, Peter. It's a pleasure to be here.
Peter:
[0:37] Before we jump into it, I'm going to throw you a curveball straight off the bat. What's the most interesting place you've traveled to? The one that's kind of surprised you, like, wow, this was the one that...
Jessica:
[0:47] Oh, goodness. That is a good question. I was trying to get to 40 countries by the time I turned 40, and I think I got to 39. So now I'm on that.
Peter:
[0:57] So close. So close.
Jessica:
[0:58] I'm on the 50 by 50 mission now, but there has been a lot because I traveled
Jessica:
[1:06] through Africa, you know, obviously some super interesting and different countries there. But I think you said, what's the most surprising? And I think I was really surprised when I went to Japan because I thought that they would speak a lot more English than what they did. And we turned up in Tokyo thinking we'll just get a taxi to the hotel and the taxi driver doesn't speak English and he's gesturing at us like you can't get in here with these snowboards and we're like what are we meant to do it's you know one o'clock in the morning it's night time and it's snowing how are we going to get to the hotel so there was a lot of pointing and hand gestures to kind of navigate our way around the country for a few weeks which was yeah very surprising actually That's really.
Peter:
[1:49] It is kind of, it's interesting to hear people's story. Obviously, I've got a very big background in Japan and be aware of it. It's amazing how many people do get a little bit shocked by Japan in that way. It's like, it's not, it's definitely not a second language at all for the country. Even to a point, I remember that, did you ever see the movie Lost in Translation with Bill Murray?
Jessica:
[2:12] Yes, yeah.
Peter:
[2:13] Now, just out of complete curiosity, did you see that movie before going to Japan or after?
Jessica:
[2:20] Oh, goodness. I don't know. That must have been before. It's a long time ago. I can't remember.
Peter:
[2:28] Because obviously, what was interesting is I was just about to finish up my work in Japan and I was about to move to China and the new teachers were coming in and they came to our like smaller town it's you know it's very small town but they had this same thing and like they came up they literally did not even stay the full day in our town and they're like we don't want to work here because this is not what we thought japan was we thought japan was like lost in translation and it was going to be all like this and it's like no that's that's like one small portion of tokyo like you know but and they left and it's like so i had to stay another two weeks until my boss could find another replacement but it's amazing how many people to get surprised but i love that of all places japan there you go yeah well it didn't put.
Jessica:
[3:17] Us off at all we were.
Peter:
[3:18] I actually i.
Jessica:
[3:18] Embrace it i love it i'm like right i've got to learn the language and you know we'll get into it but it was just surprising especially because we can't read it you know you can't kind of get by like you can in europe by going well i can figure out where i'm going because i can read the letters like it's.
Peter:
[3:32] All yeah totally.
Jessica:
[3:33] Different and so then we thought right our tip for next time is make sure that you've got where you're going, where you're staying written down in Japanese so that you can show it to the taxi driver and they can figure out where you need to be.
Peter:
[3:48] Well, it's interesting too, like you said, you had a mission doing 40 to 40, 39, that's really bloody close and I know like I think there's a lot of people with travel envy listening right now going, oh, that's nothing to complain about, 39 countries. But you are also doing this by, at the same time, I'm obviously doing a real full-fledged corporate career. Is that right? Yeah.
Jessica:
[4:10] Yes. Yeah, most of it.
Peter:
[4:12] Most of it. It's like, it was pretty full on. So, but what I love here about this, and this is what we're going to get into guys, is because, you know, Jessica, you've lived that life of like, I've done the corporate thing. You really did go to corporate. What was your old life? Let's call it that. What was your old life?
Jessica:
[4:31] Yeah, such a good question. Because I was thinking about this this morning when I got up and, you know, one of the things, I've never framed it like this before, but it was this life where you were almost judged or applauded by the amount of time and hours you spent in the office. So it was like, that's a really good staff member there. Look at them. They're in at this time and they're here until late. And this was like, I don't think anyone really talks about this, but it had gone on and you don't realize that it's like that until I think for me, I had that moment of really seeing it in a totally different light once I'd become a mom and had returned back to work. And I remember being at a staff conference, I was head of marketing.
Jessica:
[5:14] I was in the executive team and the CEO stood up at the staff conference and applauded a lady from accounts because she's in at the office at 6am every morning. And I sat there thinking, that doesn't, I mean, nothing against her. She was lovely and I'm sure she did a good job, but the fact that she's in at six in the morning means nothing that's just a time on the clock like what are people doing in the office and I'd think back over all the years I'd spent you know working for governments and I'd done you know Royal Bank of Scotland when I worked in London a huge global company and I've worked in some enormous organizations and some small ones and I thought there are people who literally it seems like their daily life at work is to come in have the morning tea trolley in the bickies and then like oh there's a cake celebration that's my lunch break and now it's like time for afternoon tea and that's their day you know and yeah so and it's like for me it was never I was always like I'm at work and I'm being productive and I thought how often is it for me it was like lunch break was literally run downstairs 10 minutes grab two sushi rolls from the sushi counter that was just outside my work run back upstairs eat.
Jessica:
[6:25] My lunch at my desk. And here's me thinking, oh, you know, I'm doing the right thing because I'm maximizing my time and I'm putting in all the effort and hours. And I look back now and I think, oh my God, what an environment and a culture that I was so entrenched in that I thought that that was me being a good employee, you know, like not even taking a break.
Peter:
[6:47] That is really valuable. And I'd like to say, I love this because this is really the first time I've got into a conversation more around the, like, the culture because let's face it, as entrepreneurs and when you want to think about starting your own thing, we know the calling of, like, lifestyle and freedom, that lovely word freedom comes to mind a lot. But it's interesting how it took you to step or have that break out of that environment to only then go back in and go, whoa, what's going on here? So, did you find it was – well, obviously, it was a shock for you coming back, coming off maternity leave. And so, what was the shift then? What was – where were you going? What was your thinking? and because that would have been, because I had that, like I know I've had that with myself going, what am I doing here in like the nine to five? And it was going past nine to five. I was sometimes because of where I had to be in terms of travel.
Peter:
[7:47] I would have to be up at 5.30. There was some places I'd have to drive three hours there, then do the eight hours work and then drive three hours back, full on day. So, I know the contrast. So, what happened here? What was the, what were you seeing? What were you feeling? And then what was the action plan? Like, were you there going, okay, you're doing the whole timeline thing? Like, oh, I'm going to, okay, I'm going to have to plan this out. I've got two years. Or was it like, nah, I'm just shifting. I'm doing my own thing.
Jessica:
[8:20] Yeah, I like this. So just to take you back a little bit before that to give a real insight and maybe people would actually relate to this as well. But I remember working for the Royal Bank of Scotland, I would be still at my desk at nine o'clock at night sometimes. I managed digital marketing team and we were there during the DFC. So my entire team got made redundant or moved off into other roles. And here I was thinking I've got to pick up the entire team's workload and slack and and here I am doing it and that was normal and that's kind of for me it was like what can I get done I'm you know I'm super productive I'm someone who works fast and I was almost like a challenge of like well let's show people what I can do and and what changed you know and I took that through into the next company where I was back in Australia and and head of marketing.
Jessica:
[9:12] You know, pulling all sorts of crazy hours, but also producing amazing results, right? But I thought it was the results that were being applauded. And what changed for me, I went on maternity leave, I came back, and I realized that I wanted to work four days a week, I wanted to work a day from home, and suddenly this became a problem. And it wasn't because of the productivity because they allowed me to do it they kind of had to in a way because of that yeah but they but even though my team i increased results produced higher outcomes and benefits than we had been before even though i was you know technically working four days but that never is the case because you're always working on your day off um yes being paid for four days shall i yeah yeah yeah you know that wasn't that wasn't recognized at all the results were not recognized it was like oh but you know you're now a part-time working mom and you're having a day at home and and I just had this there was this complete culture there of not recognizing output as in results and effort which to me is the whole purpose of it I had a team because I'm in I was in marketing, so obviously most of my staff were women as well. And I think more than half my team were mums working part time because I was very much like I don't mind.
Jessica:
[10:36] Hours you do as long as you're producing the results that's how i manage my team i'm like if you you know you fluff around all day then you're going to be working a lot longer to get your results so you know that's up to you how you manage your time if you want to come in and do your job and then go home and get your kids you know be there for the afternoon that's also fine with me i don't care as long as it's getting done but the exec were very they had this culture and And it's a very,
Jessica:
[11:01] I was in IT, it's very male dominated space. I don't think they were able to see beyond that because for them, it was like work was life and, you know, you were a great worker if you're there in the office all the time.
Jessica:
[11:13] And, you know, and I just started to see this through, it was like the lenses had been taken off my eyes and I could suddenly see what they were thinking and seeing. And I was just in complete contrast to me and how I thought about it. And I also now had more to think about than just myself. You know, before I was like, well, I didn't want to work all the hours because I want to go to the gym and I want time to relax and socialize. Now I was like, well, I've got a kid and I don't want to be dropping them off at daycare at 7am, picking them up at five when they're absolutely exhausted, literally try to get them to sleep and then spend no time with them. That wasn't to me how I wanted to spend my life or for them to experience their early years either. And I was I I believed I could do it while still doing the job and you know I'm like I can do it I'm I'm really efficient I'm a good multitasker I'm productive they were like if you're not in the office you're not doing a good job and so it just it got to this point I think one of my team members actually said to me they're like Jess what are you doing and I went you're right what am I doing why am I bashing my head against trying to still prove myself trying to make the results even better and they're not listening you know and it was that moment I think that I really saw the writings on the wall and this is I'm trying to fight a battle I can never win.
Jessica:
[12:35] So that was when to me I thought right I was pregnant with my second child at that point and so I left on maternity leave and I actually decided I'd start my second business while I was in hospital I pushed the button on it I hired someone to help me, Hired someone to help me build the website.
Peter:
[12:55] I thought I was pretty crafty by going, well, I'm going to start a membership while I've got a broken foot because I'm resting up and thinking, what can I do besides watch movies while we're elevating a foot? I'm like, I'm going to start a membership. It's going to be great. But I'm like, here you are, pregnant in hospital going, right, let's boot this website up. Let's get this cracker before this child arrives.
Jessica:
[13:17] Well, no, that was when she had arrived One day after birth, I was like, right, this is it I'm doing it.
Peter:
[13:24] So you pressed the button literally after the baby was born?
Jessica:
[13:28] Yeah, well, I'd had the plans. I'd be planning it in the weeks leading up. But I actually went, I remember being in hospital, it was the day after she was born. And I sent the email and I said, I'm doing it. I paid the money. Let's go.
Peter:
[13:43] Wow.
Jessica:
[13:44] So, yeah.
Peter:
[13:45] Talk about like, I'm just thinking right now, like if anybody from your old corporate life is, see this woman, she is productive. Look at what she has done. She's starting a new business. Literally just had another baby and it's all happening at once. You are absolutely a super trooper. I can't believe that. Wow.
Jessica:
[14:05] Some might say crazy. Some might say it's crazy, but yeah, I was very committed.
Peter:
[14:11] It's just moments like that, that even though it may, like obviously on the surface, you might get that. Even for me, I'm like, wow, that's intense. That's a very big, bold decision, a very big moment in your life. But it's those moments that really sometimes bring us the most clarity. And I suppose, like you were saying, you're valuing time with your family, with your kids, and you're starting to realize going, I'm not doing this. And I couldn't help, like, you know that old saying that parents, it's a more older generational thing, where they talk about kids, like, kids should be seen, not heard. It almost sounds like your workplaces had that policy. As long as you're sitting in the office, you're a good employee. It doesn't matter what the output is. It doesn't matter what you provide with us. But if you're there, well, clearly you must be doing something right because you're still in the office.
Jessica:
[15:02] Yeah. And I'm like, it means nothing. They might be sitting there on Facebook or buying things. They're just sitting on eBay buying random things or chatting around the coffee machine half the day. And it would frustrate me so much. But it was, yeah. So I don't think that that was unique to that one workplace either. I think it's actually far more prevalent than what we think.
Peter:
[15:26] Yeah, like you said, it's a cultural thing, and I think it's kind of stemmed from oversight. But honestly, I know for a fact that ourselves being the way that we are, and it's more and more people are finding independence through whether it be entrepreneurship or some kind of creativity and outlet, but more and more people are breaking from that normal. I keep reading and seeing these news articles, oh, Gen Z is letting the workforce down because they just want work-life balance at 22 years of age. But it's like, you know, it's just an interesting cultural thing. But let's have a look at this too. I'm just going to – we're going to take a little detour here.
Peter:
[16:03] Let's have a look. What would you say were your old values before you really jumped into your own business? What would you say, what were your values during that period of your life?
Jessica:
[16:16] Yes, good question. Definitely not time.
Peter:
[16:22] Time, freedom, work-life balance, they were not on the list.
Jessica:
[16:25] They were not on the list. Look, I think it was like self-worth but also not feeling like I had it yet and so needing to do more and achieve more. So always looking at like, okay, well, I'm here but I'm not there yet. I'm not there yet. I need to do more. I need to get to the next level. And at that point that I did break away, I'd got to the top level marketing job. I was there. It wasn't that I didn't enjoy it. I did enjoy it, but it was suddenly that thing that had seemed such a rose-tinted like, oh, that's where I want to get to for so many years, 20 years I spent in that career.
Peter:
[17:05] Working your way up the corporate ladder.
Jessica:
[17:06] Working my way up, yeah. And I was just like, it's not all that fancy. Now I'm here. Like it's really, you know, it's great, yes, but I still don't get to have all of the say because I'm in a publicly listed company, so the board of directors and there's always someone you're answering to and it doesn't matter if you've got, you know, it's like you've got to sell every idea that you have, you know, and fair enough.
Peter:
[17:30] Hey, you are in marketing. Come on.
Jessica:
[17:32] I know, I know. But like sometimes you're like, guys, just trust me on this. Like, come on.
Peter:
[17:37] I've been working on this for 12 months and you really want me to sell this to you?
Jessica:
[17:41] Oh, my goodness.
Peter:
[17:42] You know, so, and what would you say now? And I love that perspective of like, it's almost like that dangling carrot. It's like, okay, I know where I want to get to. I'm going to get there, I'm going to get there, I'm going to get there. And you get there, it's not...
Peter:
[17:54] You know, quite, you know, what you were expecting it to be or, and it's funny, like, you kind of, I suppose you probably had this feeling of, like, you had some idea of what you thought being in that top job would be like, but then obviously, like you're saying, it comes with a whole bunch of other things where you're like, I didn't, wasn't expecting this to be part of the job. So, it takes the, takes the fun out of it a little bit, I suppose, doesn't it?
Jessica:
[18:18] Yeah, and you still don't have the ability to think, well, I'm going to go traveling, I'm, got, you know, I've got to ask for permission and I've only got this many days. And it just felt like there's so many rules and everything really constricting and ruling your life of how you need to do things. And I just got to that point. I thought, you know what, I'm sick of other people telling me how I've got to live my life or I've got to ask for permission in order to do it. And I think that was, that's part of it as well. Maybe it was just the amount of time that you spend there. For me, living by, you know, other people's rules, just I'd had enough of it. I don't know.
Peter:
[18:53] Well, hey, excuse me, child number two, sit right there. I'm going to hit the start button. It's like I'm not putting you through the same places as your older sibling.
Peter:
[19:03] I'm going to give you a different life and lifestyle to learn by. And that's what a real kind of change. And so obviously now, what would you say are the values that govern you now?
Jessica:
[19:16] Yeah, well, time is absolutely number one. And I think almost any parent probably feels that, right? You know, you just think every day I think, well, today I'm never getting that back again. You know, we've got one life. Life is not a dress rehearsal. So it's not like, oh, I'm going to try to make all the safe choices and all the logical ones and then get to the end of my life and look back and think of all the things that I could have done that I didn't just because there might have been a risk of the unknown. Like I want to get to that point whenever it is and actually just be like, I've maximized every day, every moment of my life to follow what I want to do, go to the places I want to go to, spend the time I want to spend there. I just really want to feel like I've lived it to the max. And I've also, I guess made an impact, but in a way of like, I want my daughter to look at me and to see a role model and to be inspired, not to look at me and think, oh, well, she never did these things even though she could have you know I I want to be showing the younger generation, that there are there are shifts to be made and if you want it to happen you've got to stand up and make it happen like you've actually got to lead it don't sit back and wait for someone else to give it to you you know and it's interesting too.
Peter:
[20:30] Like I I know that I'm not but I know that through and essentially you talk about being the role model for your children like I know that was a big factor for me.
Peter:
[20:41] In really because I was like what am I doing this like I'm I'm stuck in nine to five, beyond nine to five I'm spending almost four hours minimum in traffic and it's a hundred kilometer stretch of road that has four lanes you know it's called the you know car park, it's not the highway but it's called the car park but it's just like you start looking at going you know I know I was going what am I doing and I remember I had the same thing it was like what what kind of example am I setting here? Like this is, and I know that I was, I felt like I wasn't getting anywhere. And it's like, so the same thing I was inspired to go, I want to show my kids, it doesn't matter what you do or what your talent might be or how, if you've got an idea or if you're creative at some point, if you believe in yourself enough, you can make it work and you can create the life that you want from that regardless. So I totally, totally relate to you on that and kind of setting that positive role model and kind of doing it. And now, like, not only are you setting this positive role model but for your children, but you have really now found this calling and passion and purpose to be the role model for so many other women, really going, there's got to be something better for me. So, where did this really get born and where is it taking you to today? Because I think it's a miraculous story.
Jessica:
[22:05] Thank you. Well, I think, you know, in just what I've shared about my story, I realized when I saw it for the first time properly through unfiltered lenses, I started to notice that I'm not the only one experiencing this, but nobody is talking about it. So I then realized I'd seen other women in my company go on maternity leave and then not come back or they came back very briefly and then left and I started to realize there were things I didn't notice then that now I could see with that benefit of the different lens I was looking through and it had just been they wanted something and the executive wanted something else and they weren't prepared to have somebody in a senior role who was a working mother they just didn't believe that you could do the two things. I didn't believe in you. And I...
Jessica:
[22:51] After then starting my business and sharing a bit of my story, even though it was very painful, it took me a while to actually be able to open up and talk about it because I still felt like there was something wrong with me. Like there's something wrong with me because I hadn't managed to convince them that I was capable of doing it. And it took me a while even then to be able to look back and go, it wasn't me. This was a blanket box that they were applying to everybody. And it wasn't just our company, it's many companies. And as soon as I started to share, I had women reaching out to me and saying, oh, you know, I got fired as soon as I told them I was pregnant or I got demoted, you know, before they'd even gone on maternity leave, you know, they'd had their jobs ripped out from under their feet. And it just got me really fired up and angry. You know, I'd actually had what I call a lucky situation because I'd come back and I'd been able to negotiate a redundancy package that was very favorable for me, you know, and I'd really been able to leave with my head held high although inside feeling a bit like a failure because you know i i hadn't i guess i hadn't succeeded in changing their mind so i felt like a failure well yeah let's suppose yeah like you're saying it's.
Peter:
[24:01] It's a fine balance isn't it and like.
Jessica:
[24:04] I'm hearing.
Peter:
[24:04] I can almost feel that energy coming off you kind of like i can see it even in your face going it's still there going you know i just wish they i could have either convinced them or they could have heard me a bit clearer or trying to make that change but like I always say sometimes it's like you can't create the change there it's about us.
Jessica:
[24:22] Creating change and it's like so and.
Peter:
[24:25] Now it's here you are.
Jessica:
[24:26] Yeah and I think it was the sign you know for me even though it was painful at the time I realized that it had probably I hadn't been paying attention to the signs that had been there already for like three years I should have made a move earlier and I'd just been holding on to the security blanket for so long that it had been you know I've been a bit blinkered that I had other choices and I could have left and the interesting thing is because you talk about it being your purpose and your path so I I knew that it was the right thing but it was still scary and like, a few months later at some point so I was you know doing my business full-time and I got headhunted for a robot in another company you know really great role and I thought oh well you know maybe I'll go along for the interview and just see what they have to say, you know, at the time. I'll entertain it. I'll entertain it. I'll see what they want to offer me, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah. And I went for this interview and the weirdest thing happened, which I didn't kind of, because as I said to you before, Peter, I really wasn't into any kind of spirituality or understanding anything like that at this point in time. It's just starting out and... I sat in this interview and I started physically shaking and my voice was shaking. My body was shaking. It was like I was freezing cold and I was having these shivers and I was trying to hold it together because then I started going, this is weird. So, I'm trying to have this conversation.
Peter:
[25:53] Trying to hold this professional look and then you go, but on the inside, your body's like, what? I can almost imagine in your mind going, what is going on?
Jessica:
[26:01] Yeah. Face out, start going.
Peter:
[26:02] But inside go.
Jessica:
[26:05] And I so I went you know finished it off and I was driving home and I thought there is I don't even care what they offer me there is absolutely no way I'm going there like that is that would be jumping straight back into everything I hated about yes what it was before so I kind of had that instant thing and then once I started learning about you know about your nervous system and about all of these emotions and I realized that was like a trauma that I had in my body that I'd activated by being there in this interview and my body was having a physiological response to the actual danger of going back into this place that I absolutely knew I didn't want to be in and I'd already gone off down this other path. Here I was kind of turning around and looking back at the crossroads and thinking, shall I go back there? And my body was like, oh, stop. Yeah, it's your alarm system.
Peter:
[26:58] Isn't it? It's an alarm, yeah.
Jessica:
[26:58] Like, I've just been triggered.
Peter:
[27:00] And it's just like, I always say too, like, I don't know how many times I've experienced this and I see it with people. And this story, I'm like, oh, so if anybody's in this position, here's the thing. This is a spiritual lesson and it's called the test of resolve. Because like you're saying, you're going down one path and then you're like, sure, I'll just go and entertain this interview and I'll go and see what's going on here. and maybe, you never know, if it's good enough. And it's just someone's like, it's that little like test.
Jessica:
[27:31] Are you committed?
Peter:
[27:32] Well, see, and this is the other thing too is, and I don't know whether you're personally aware of it, but your example is very, very clear when I talk about people around spiritual lessons in life, the life spiritual lessons, not just like in that spiritual sense or energetic sense. What happens is people don't understand is you actually have to live and learn the lesson first, and once you've learned it, then you get tested on it. And so everything you went through before, that was the lesson, and then you going through this moment and having this. I'll tell you what, if you had said yes to that, I'm like, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Jessica:
[28:14] No.
Peter:
[28:14] It's like, but you can see like it was you kind of, it was realistically so much force and so much wonderful energy going, what are you doing? Like, this is not the path. Like, you know, alarm, alarm, alarm, red alert, red flags, don't do it. Like, go, but come back to this way. Come back to where you're meant to be going.
Jessica:
[28:34] My subconscious freaked out on like a maximum scale.
Peter:
[28:39] Well, every time you, like, when you kind of mentioned this previously when we were chatting, like and even now like every time you go there like you it's almost like I'm right there with you I'm thinking wow it's almost like you're totally reliving it in right now I'm like you can sense and feel it coming off you it's like it's yeah it's you know when you know when someone's really in that energy when it's like that I can see it and go on I'm like I can feel I can almost feel my whole front part of my body starting to tighten up and I can feel the heart rate racing like even as you're just recalling the memory I'm like my.
Jessica:
[29:11] Palms got all sweaty.
Peter:
[29:12] Yeah it's just like I can feel the energy coming right off you. It's kind of crazy. But the main thing is you really paid attention to that. You said no and you're going, right, let's go back to what I was kind of moving towards anyway.
Jessica:
[29:27] Yeah. It was almost like a confirmation. Like, am I on the right path? And I think it actually took me that day to go down there, entertain this idea of going back into the corporate for me to go, oh, my goodness, no, like, definitely not. And yeah I kind of I knew that I guess I was listening to my intuition I didn't really realize the significance of the shaking until a couple of years later when I started learning about that I'm like oh my god I had a like a full traumatic trigger response in that interview and but it was I mean thank goodness right it was good to be tested and to to see it because it just made me so much more certain that I was on the right path and I was doing the right thing and I just needed to continue. And, you know, it was almost like a really positive experience for, you know, as everyone has in your own business, you can have wobbles, you can have moments of like, am I insane? What am I doing? Am I delusional? You know, is this really what I'm meant to be doing? And I think for me, that was a massive confirmation. It was like, no, you are on the right path. This is good. This feels really good. So yeah, it was an interesting experience.
Peter:
[30:36] I love it. And so, you know, it's been questioned because you mentioned something earlier. I'm like, oh, I'm like, I've really got to ask you this because I feel like this will be, super beneficial for anyone who's listening because I know for a fact that I've got a lot of listeners, I've got a lot of clients, a lot of people who kind of follow me in my own little world. They will be kind of sitting on the fence in a very similar position to where you might have been because it is scary to kind of go, I'm going to leave like full-time employment. I'm going to leave a career. I'm going to leave that security of I know where the paycheck's coming. I've got bills to pay. I know a lot of people in that mindset, but I also know that they're going, I know there's more to my life. I know there's something more that I can offer. There's something more that I can give in the world. But obviously, the big thing is fear, right? So, fear is going to be the thing. Now, you mentioned that kind of like, okay, where's this going? What would your advice, considering you have been through this and, you know, going through your story, what would be your advice to someone who would be kind of in a similar situation or kind of in that position of like, I'm sitting on it going, I know there's more to life, but I'm just not sure. It's like, because I don't know what's, if I, if I made this choice now, I don't know. What would be your advice to help someone in that position?
Jessica:
[32:01] Well, we're never going to know for sure. So, if you're sitting around waiting to know something, like you can know it with certainty, then you're always going to be sitting there because the future is unwritten right so it's kind of up to you to write it you're and that's I guess the thing that I would ask and one of the the really good questions is if you knew that both ways if you're thinking is it a or b like which which way should I go if both were equally successful and you knew without a doubt it was going to be successful which one would you do like what is it that you really want because I think we've got to make a differentiation between that whole like well the grass is greener on the other side scenario that I think we always are like we're in our situation we're always looking at others and having that little bit of enviousness but then you you know you can see people who change and change and change to get another job and then they're still the same miserable thing it's like is it actually the job or is this something else because you're the common factor here so maybe it's not the job so there's a truth bomb oh Jessica's just.
Peter:
[33:05] Laid it out on the table Watch out, people. You know, you can see why she's a coach for people in business, right? She's not going to hold back. She's going to drop it on you. They're like, boom. It's like, I'm sorry. There's one common element here, and it's called you.
Jessica:
[33:21] That was fairly blunt. Sorry about that.
Peter:
[33:23] I'm like, hey, someone's saying it. Someone's saying it. I love it.
Jessica:
[33:28] Well, you know, and I think no shame in that either. Like it's not like you're the only, if it is you, you're not the only person that's ever happened to. And I think that we could all probably look at times where we keep on thinking, oh, it's something else, you know, whether it's relationships, whether it's jobs, whether it's whatever that we kind of have multiple ones. And then the common factor when we look at it really is yourself. So I think it's a really great experience or exercise to turn the mirror and actually look at yourself and go, well, why is it that I'm not happy here? What is it about this?
Jessica:
[34:00] You know, and maybe there could be lots of reasons, right? I mean, for some people being in a job, you know, it may be aspects of it or the environment that you're in, but you could be very happy in a different sort of environment. And maybe you just haven't found the job that's allowing you to leverage your strengths, you know, and to give a quick example of that might be, I'm the type of person who I do not want to be dictated to on a micro level. Like do this this this this in this order I want them to give me the vision and then I will figure out how to go away and do it that would have been like my ideal jobs when I look back were the managers who allowed me that space whereas other people they freak out when they're given that like vision and no actual guidance or steps on how to do it they want these steps and so as a then when I was a manager and leader I had both different types of people in my team and I had to manage them and lead them very differently to allow them to be able to step into their own value and to really be having a great time in their roles. But I understood that. I think a lot of people don't understand it. And it's a really good thing to just start understanding yourself. Like what makes you work? What's the best environment for you? And then you go, well, what is it about where I am that's not that? And maybe it is shifting, but it may not be that you need to start a business, it might just be you need a different type of job.
Jessica:
[35:25] You know, certainly running your own business is not for the faint of heart and it's a great thing. There's definitely a journey and for some it is.
Peter:
[35:32] And it's a journey, all right. It ain't for the faint heart and I can tell you what, considering the conversation and what you've just been talking about, like you learn who you are very, very quickly when you start your own thing. And I think there's one thing, you know, whether you could say we're hardwired, you know, as entrepreneurs as a different way but there's one thing that we are good at it's changing ourselves, like yeah we definitely adapt and we kind of go with it so and that's me like and if you're listening to this and that's what i was like saying like when jessica said it it's like it's you that is a huge huge truth pill, Like, right there because it's amazing how many people, I always love that saying because it comes from, I've heard it with Grumpy or Old Man with Walter Matthew and Jack Lemmon back in the day. And he's Jack Lemmon's father in that movie. He always says, well, you can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one gets filled first.
Peter:
[36:27] It's just like, and I always look at life like that going, if I'm not happy, I'm crapping in my hand. Like, all I'm doing is focusing on the crap. and I know that's cups gets full very very quickly if you're not careful and it's a big shift so but obviously you take all of these things and this is a big thing that you take forward and I love it and I love the fact that you know you are encompassing everything you've come from the corporate space you're now here like on a mission purpose empowering women to kind of like hey give it a go and focus on you in a positive sense because I think you know even though in you know kind of different spectrums but it's all connected it's the same thing we're all here helping people to empower themselves to go look there is something more for you and it's a way of kind of going about it and i love it what would you to kind of really sum this up what would you final words of wisdom for our listeners be today well.
Jessica:
[37:27] I the little thing in the back of my mind that came up as soon as you said that is it's kind of about claiming your personal power and I think that what had happened and what happens to a lot of us in our roles is that we've given so much power away we've given it away to that environment that you're in the culture the boss other people's expectations all of that stuff and it's like you probably know deep down what you really want to do or what fires you up or lights you up and you know when I think about my choice to start a business wasn't just because I didn't want to have a job anymore. Like I could go and find a different job that had different people and probably have a wonderful time. But I really decided I want to help all of these women who are starting their own business at this pivotal moment in their life where, you know, their workplaces are turning their backs on them. They're starting a business because they want to create their own, life and a work that supports their life instead of takes away from it and it was like that is me leaning into my purpose and in order for me to do that I've got to claim my personal power back I've got to be able to share and help them to step into theirs otherwise they're just kind of creating another job for themselves except they're working for themselves and then maybe multiple bosses as clients but it's like if you actually take that shift to another level and really step into your personal power.
Jessica:
[38:51] You know, understand your expertise, you can create something that not only gives you freedom and flexibility, but it also gives you absolute fulfillment and that ability to feel like you're just living out what you're meant to be doing. And it's not just about I'm doing a job to get money into the bank. It's so much more than that. And that's, to me, I think what I wanted to wrap that up with.
Peter:
[39:17] I love it. No, honestly, and you said it because And you can feel the passion coming out of you with that and a big differentiation, which is something, again, we learn is like you've got to be careful you're not just creating another job for yourself. If you're not careful, it will morph into that. Like it's the same thing just with different people playing different roles and like, oh, this is not exactly what I signed up for. So, I think that was a very, very powerful distinction to also put out there for people. But if you've been listening to this and if you've enjoyed this wonderful interview with Jessica, you can go and head over to her website, jessicaosborne.com. And if you want, you can add a forward slash onto that and put the number five and keys and you can start your journey. If you've resonated and you're hearing and you're going, oh my God, Jessica's story, it's like, oh, this is, I need you right now. Or you can start your journey over there, jessicaosborne.com forward slash five keys. That's your free training, isn't it, Jessica?
Jessica:
[40:13] That's correct. Yeah.
Peter:
[40:15] And you can help over there. But again, Jessica, thank you so much for sharing your time, your story, and honestly, your words of wisdom. Loved it. And I know that we're going to get back on an episode in the future and we're just going to jam. We're going to get into some life and some spiritual lessons. I think it's going to be amazing. But again, thank you so much for your time today.
Jessica:
[40:35] Thank you so much, Peter. That was awesome.
